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cohesive strength? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5351 |
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Author: | crich [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:28 pm ] |
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Robbie constantly talks about his "high tech glue spreading device" in his DVD, you think LMI has them for sale?? ![]() |
Author: | Alain Desforges [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:37 pm ] |
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I think they go all the way up to 600... However, I'm very surprised that you managed to knock that off that easily... hmmmm Maybe Mr. Ford can chime in. |
Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:14 pm ] |
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I have the 260g from Lee Valley, it's pretty strong but supposedly, you have less open time for glueing. 192g seems to be the norm in most guitar shops for what i've read here though |
Author: | mikev [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:07 pm ] |
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I use 192, and from what I have seen the only time you could knock something off would be if there was either a contaminant or you temp was wrong. I have had to warm the parts if I did not move fast enough. I doubt there is much strenght difference between 167 and 192. Are you sure it was 145degrees, mixed correctly (ratio). Where you in a cold room with cool parts?? My wifes hair drier gets good use in my shop when shes not lookin.. ![]() |
Author: | David Collins [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:05 pm ] |
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A lack of cohesive strength can for practical purposes be translated to a lack of gap filling strength. Adhesion generally refers to a glue's ability to adhere to a surface, while cohesion describes it's ability to form internal bonds within itself. High adhesive / low cohesive strength would mean that if forms an excellent bond with a tight joint, ideally in which individual strands of the collagens are each bonding to both surfaces. If the joint is not tight enough, they would have to attatch to one surface, then bond to a series of other collagens to make it across the gap to the other surface. As to the gram strength, 167 should still be more than adequate. Most people use from 192 to 250 though. Above 300 is generally considered too thick and quick gelling to be convenient for general woodworking. 500 is used to make chipped glass. I don't believe I've ever used the Behlens hide glue, but Milligan and Higgins doesn't make a 167 gram strength which means it's imported from outside the US. This doesn't automatically mean it's bad, but I do know a lot of the imported glues use more bone and hoof than hide and are considered quite inferior (and smelly). Even with lousy hide glue you shouldn't have gotten a clean break though. I don't know how much you use hide glue, but from what you describe it really sounds like something went wrong in the glueing process. As Mike pointed to, there are so many variables - your mixture, how is your glue heated, could it have gelled before fully clamped, etc. If the break was totally clean it seems like a mistake must have been made somewhere. |
Author: | crich [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:55 am ] |
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Thanks,I think maybe my room was too cold.I understand the cohesive strength issue and now feel more comfortable with HHG and know how and why it works. I appreciate all the responses! Clinton |
Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:37 am ] |
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Warming the parts before gluing will go a long way to ensuring a good joint. |
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